Comments for Don't Eat The Fruit http://donteatthefruit.com Technology is Fast, but Redemption is Slow Fri, 12 Mar 2010 23:51:48 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 Comment on How Roasting Coffee Helped Me Understand Technology and Theology by Adam http://donteatthefruit.com/2010/03/how-roasting-coffee-helped-me-understand-technology-and-theology/#comment-9871 Adam Fri, 12 Mar 2010 23:51:48 +0000 http://donteatthefruit.com/?p=749#comment-9871 I echo the accolades. This post was in mind when I watched this video on Jacque Ellul. http://anklebiter.net/log/?p=1256 I can see how he's influenced your thought. One question. One challenge. Ellul mentions Esau's trade for stew. He likens this to the trade-offs we make with technology. So, my question was, Do you think Esau used Jacob as a sort of "device"? Was Esau valuing efficiency above all? Why couldn't he have made his own stew? Okay, that's 3 questions. My challenge regards efficiency. I think Christians, myself included, equate efficiency with good stewardship. I'm not sure how to make an argument for divorcing these two things. Perhaps it's a matter of "reframing" the discussion by reprioritizing values. Some will argue, and have here in the comments, that using devices is good stewardship, allowing us to *accomplish more for Jesus* (a value stmt). When does the process trump efficiency? Or, when is the means more important than the end? Okay, my challenge has evolved into more questions. I'll let them stand. (But it's so open-ended! Where's the closure? I echo the accolades.

This post was in mind when I watched this video on Jacque Ellul. http://anklebiter.net/log/?p=1256 I can see how he’s influenced your thought.

One question. One challenge.

Ellul mentions Esau’s trade for stew. He likens this to the trade-offs we make with technology. So, my question was, Do you think Esau used Jacob as a sort of “device”? Was Esau valuing efficiency above all? Why couldn’t he have made his own stew? Okay, that’s 3 questions.

My challenge regards efficiency. I think Christians, myself included, equate efficiency with good stewardship. I’m not sure how to make an argument for divorcing these two things. Perhaps it’s a matter of “reframing” the discussion by reprioritizing values. Some will argue, and have here in the comments, that using devices is good stewardship, allowing us to *accomplish more for Jesus* (a value stmt). When does the process trump efficiency? Or, when is the means more important than the end?

Okay, my challenge has evolved into more questions. I’ll let them stand. (But it’s so open-ended! Where’s the closure?

]]> Comment on How Roasting Coffee Helped Me Understand Technology and Theology by JD Eddins http://donteatthefruit.com/2010/03/how-roasting-coffee-helped-me-understand-technology-and-theology/#comment-9864 JD Eddins Fri, 12 Mar 2010 20:47:41 +0000 http://donteatthefruit.com/?p=749#comment-9864 When I saw on twitter that this was the must read blog post from someone that I follow I thought, well, maybe its good- I'll take a look. Wow, really enjoyed this. So thanks for sharing your thoughts. When I saw on twitter that this was the must read blog post from someone that I follow I thought, well, maybe its good- I’ll take a look. Wow, really enjoyed this. So thanks for sharing your thoughts.

]]> Comment on How Roasting Coffee Helped Me Understand Technology and Theology by John (8BIT) http://donteatthefruit.com/2010/03/how-roasting-coffee-helped-me-understand-technology-and-theology/#comment-9863 John (8BIT) Fri, 12 Mar 2010 19:41:49 +0000 http://donteatthefruit.com/?p=749#comment-9863 what a geek. what a geek.

]]> Comment on How Roasting Coffee Helped Me Understand Technology and Theology by Rhett Smith http://donteatthefruit.com/2010/03/how-roasting-coffee-helped-me-understand-technology-and-theology/#comment-9862 Rhett Smith Fri, 12 Mar 2010 19:40:03 +0000 http://donteatthefruit.com/?p=749#comment-9862 John, Great post...I know we have had this conversation a lot, so I'm thankful you have put it into a blog post. There is a lot to ponder here. Thanks man, Rhett John,

Great post…I know we have had this conversation a lot, so I’m thankful you have put it into a blog post. There is a lot to ponder here.

Thanks man,

Rhett

]]> Comment on How Roasting Coffee Helped Me Understand Technology and Theology by John Dyer http://donteatthefruit.com/2010/03/how-roasting-coffee-helped-me-understand-technology-and-theology/#comment-9828 John Dyer Thu, 11 Mar 2010 13:09:40 +0000 http://donteatthefruit.com/?p=749#comment-9828 I'm doing pretty well, but alas I won't be making it up to BibleTech10. How are you my friend? I’m doing pretty well, but alas I won’t be making it up to BibleTech10. How are you my friend?

]]> Comment on How Roasting Coffee Helped Me Understand Technology and Theology by John Dyer http://donteatthefruit.com/2010/03/how-roasting-coffee-helped-me-understand-technology-and-theology/#comment-9827 John Dyer Thu, 11 Mar 2010 13:09:01 +0000 http://donteatthefruit.com/?p=749#comment-9827 Thanks Scott. I've been using the plain Staples "Easy" button in my slides, but I'll have to add the Jesus button in future ones. Thanks Scott. I’ve been using the plain Staples “Easy” button in my slides, but I’ll have to add the Jesus button in future ones.

]]> Comment on How Roasting Coffee Helped Me Understand Technology and Theology by John Dyer http://donteatthefruit.com/2010/03/how-roasting-coffee-helped-me-understand-technology-and-theology/#comment-9825 John Dyer Thu, 11 Mar 2010 13:05:28 +0000 http://donteatthefruit.com/?p=749#comment-9825 I can totally relate on parenting! Borgmann spends a lot of time talking about the centrality of "the table" so I'm sure he'd appreciate your grilling :) I can totally relate on parenting!

Borgmann spends a lot of time talking about the centrality of “the table” so I’m sure he’d appreciate your grilling :)

]]> Comment on How Roasting Coffee Helped Me Understand Technology and Theology by John Dyer http://donteatthefruit.com/2010/03/how-roasting-coffee-helped-me-understand-technology-and-theology/#comment-9824 John Dyer Thu, 11 Mar 2010 13:03:41 +0000 http://donteatthefruit.com/?p=749#comment-9824 <em>Is it really a matter of things getting smaller and smaller?</em> Good question. Of course, I'm vastly simplifying years of Borgmann's thoughts, but I would say his point is not just that devices get smaller or more complex, but that in doing so they tend to make processes more and more hidden. <em>Aren’t there quite a few technologies that we should be grateful for precisely because they hide the process?</em> No doubt! I don't think Borgmann wants to paint all technology as inherently bad or good, but to think carefully about the tradeoffs that various technologies bring. <em>I don’t disagree, it leaves me asking “How is it made significant?”</em> Another good question, my friend! Is it really a matter of things getting smaller and smaller?
Good question. Of course, I’m vastly simplifying years of Borgmann’s thoughts, but I would say his point is not just that devices get smaller or more complex, but that in doing so they tend to make processes more and more hidden.

Aren’t there quite a few technologies that we should be grateful for precisely because they hide the process?
No doubt! I don’t think Borgmann wants to paint all technology as inherently bad or good, but to think carefully about the tradeoffs that various technologies bring.

I don’t disagree, it leaves me asking “How is it made significant?”
Another good question, my friend!

]]> Comment on Read the Bible: Greek and Hebrew Reading Experiment by John Dyer http://donteatthefruit.com/2009/04/read-the-bible-greek-and-hebrew-reading-experiment/#comment-9822 John Dyer Thu, 11 Mar 2010 12:56:23 +0000 4ab49e86-2d0e-4947-94b8-955ef12f80f2#comment-9822 Glad to hear it! Glad to hear it!

]]> Comment on How Roasting Coffee Helped Me Understand Technology and Theology by How Roasting Coffee Helped Me Understand Technology and Theology | Don’t Eat The Fruit « thinking http://donteatthefruit.com/2010/03/how-roasting-coffee-helped-me-understand-technology-and-theology/#comment-9818 How Roasting Coffee Helped Me Understand Technology and Theology | Don’t Eat The Fruit « thinking Thu, 11 Mar 2010 08:46:55 +0000 http://donteatthefruit.com/?p=749#comment-9818 [...] How Roasting Coffee Helped Me Understand Technology and Theology | Don’t Eat The Fruit Posted in 1 by reubsy on March 11, 2010 How Roasting Coffee Helped Me Understand Technology and Theology | Don’t Eat The Fruit. [...] [...] How Roasting Coffee Helped Me Understand Technology and Theology | Don’t Eat The Fruit Posted in 1 by reubsy on March 11, 2010 How Roasting Coffee Helped Me Understand Technology and Theology | Don’t Eat The Fruit. [...]

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